where is althea from hoarders now
Millions of viewers have since watched the drama unfold as the cameras revealed the couples overwhelming living conditions. In a follow-up episode with one of the show's organizers Dorothy Breninger, she revealed that she and Betty's children were shocked by Betty's extreme attachment to her hoarded items. But its not so easy when youre Netflix famous. However, Nadine was happy with the outcome of the clean-up. If nothing else, Monday's episode of 'Hoarders' was a testament to just how much stuff there was to be cleaned out of Carter's Westside home. Cussing is fine, but don't name-call, and any kind of hate speech will get you kicked out. Hoarder or not, Carter brings the age-old adage 'one person's trash is another's treasure' to its limit. In the episode, it was revealed that their home has been foreclosed. I wish they wouldve gotten the newer clean-up specialist, Brandon Bronaugh, to lead her house. Rotten food, useless furniture, and dead rodents were abundant in Carter's home and yard. Clean-up crews are still in the process of mitigating Carter's hoard, more than two months after film crews left the area. New episodes of the show air Monday nights at 8 p.m. ET/7 p.m. CT on A&E and will follow eight different families as they battle with hoarding disorders that threaten to destroy their lives,. His home was filled with piles of trash. Althias family tries their best to convince her, explaining that some of the useless pieces of stuff need to go and she must move on. I know there are some people who would have paid pretty good money for those. 5 seasons Reality 2021 English audio TV-14 Buy "Hoarders: Family Secrets" continues the efforts of the "Hoarders" franchise to get help for people whose obsessive collecting habits threaten. We can write tickets all day but thats not going to solve the problem, he said. While that doesn't seem to have happened, the family reportedly did face some dark times. Now, the curtains stay drawn at the yellow house with brown shutters and a No Trespassing sign. Maybe eventually I will. Awhile back, I watched the Mother of All Hoarder episodes, featuring Sandra, a once successful interior designer, lived in the 9,000 square foot historical tudor . Most of her farm equipment and supplies were lost. It went from argumentative to respect. I know where to step. He even revealed that he talks to the unconventional pair on a weekly basis and that the three are legitimate friends. This is a friendly community where we can talk about the shows, the cast (Will Matt Paxton ever pose nude? It was sad and cathartic as well. I could see how she feels, I hate watching a team of men belittle her emotions. This lifelong resident of Santa Cruz, has been many things over the course of her life, including a police officer and a criminal, but last Monday night, Carter, her family, and her home were put under the spotlight by Hoarders A&E's popular Emmy award winning documentary series. He had rats as pets before losing his wife, but he eventually lost control over up to 2,500 critters, as the IMDbpage for his episode explained. Which is why you need to focus on managing your own stress/mental health before you attempt to help them. She gives much to the community, but today, she needs to reach out to her friends and family with help with her accidental fire on January 2, 2015. Just watching this now. Louise is so incapable of improving her own circumstances that in the segment where we usually compare the hoarded house's horrifying "before" to its much-improved "after," she initially refuses to let a friend see the alleged progress she's made, but finally relents so that we can see nothing has changed. Some try to look in their windows. Rhonda chased them for months to come because of what it would cost to haul all the stuff away.". When they walked into her living room, she had a rotting pumpkin on the table, and she laughed about it being two years old. I can warrrrsh it off. They had a daughter, Amanda, together. Her sons name is Cody, and she had essentially an open junkyard/multiple locations, and everything was to be re-sold. Despite everything he went through as a child because of his mother, he still had kind words to say to her. his brother Gary said in a desperate statement to The Antelope Valley Times. Youre touching on a sore subject, Andy said of the show. "Hoarders" is back! As a result, managing so many things and having to see them every day prove overwhelming for the aged owner. The Wheeling resident, identified only as Sherry, was the subject of an episode of A&E's "Hoarders," which premiered Monday evening, to the surprise of many Wheeling residents who knew the. Founded Dec 2017 Form Delaware Corporation Employees 3 Website althea.net Social Media Headquarters 28 South Park Street , San Francisco, CA Althea Team Everyone helping build Althea, not limited to employees Jehan Tremback CEO Dropped out of art school, learned to code. Andy Otter looks over his back yard that was piled with trash in a 2019 episode of the AE series Hoarders, which was picked up by Netflix. Carter said she didn't think it was connected to the show, however other friends suspect it was no coincidence that he chose to take his life while the show was still filming at his sister's house. As a result, her family and friends team up to help her in changing her life altogether. Twitter @reporterbrown. Well take the overgrown weeds over the garbage, Thomas said. Her brother's suicide was mentioned on the show only as 'a death in the family,' and the real drama of Monday's episode arose from how differentlyCarter sees her lifestyle from those around her. In a clip of the "Hoarders" episode seen on YouTube, Ray shared that his San Francisco home would be worth around $2 million if it wasn't filled to the brim with Ray's hoard. At the end of her section of the follow-up, it was revealed that Jason hadn't come back since the cleanup and wasn't planning to. Yup, the notorious A&E show has returned for Season 10, and its premiere episode trots out what we think may be the worst hoarder house . Everything to know about Hoarders season 11, including the expert therapists and cleaners, premiere date and time, trailer and how to watch Andy and Becky Otter got a resurgence of fame when the A&E reality TV show was picked up by Netflix. Get me a bucket and some bleach. This post was contributed by a community member. The front yard is mowed by a neighbor. "I cannot get over the difference in here," she said in a relieved tone. The Everett Museum of History celebrated Dan Bates and Julie Muhlstein, whose work often highlighted local history. the most disturbing collections on "Hoarders". So as of today, the two are probably still living in Milwaukee in one of the other properties they own. Mark Thomas said the city had been dealing with the Otters for obvious and extreme code violations for years and had written citations. Dennis was so depressed about the house that he had expressed to his daughter that he wanted to take his own life, and she was worried. Season 11, Episode 3 - Althia 8:00 PM Eastern on A&E Althia faces heavy fines for multiple vehicles, building materials and a 60-foot semi-trailer on her residential property; her 5,000 square foot unfinished dream home is filled with unsold inventory from a business that ended when her husband died. However, in a "Memory Lane" clip from the show, extreme hoarder expert Matt Paxton reminisced on Fredd and Fuzzie fondly, even describing them as "two of my favorite hoarders to this day." The pair of brothers went on the show because Ray's hoard caused the home to catch flame, and it could have burned down the neighbor's home as well, according to the episode's description. There was no way to get in there short of kicking the door down. "For me, he is just someone to talk to. Her daughter also commented that although her relationship with her mother was still not perfect, it had improved in many ways. Sadly, after filming, the end credits noted that Laura's health had declined, and she died in September 2010. By the end of the episode, it seemed like the family was on the path to healing. Thankfully, in late July 2020, Panhandle Cleaning and Restoration, a cleaning service reached out to Sherry at the shows producers behest and restored her house after Pittsburghs Steri-Clean team removed the trash. For a detailed view of how Althias house looks before the clean-up, you can check out the official clip for the episode below: Don't miss a dramatic new #Hoarders TOMORROW at 8PM! Hoarding disorder is a mental problem that causes people to accumulate excessive amounts of clutter and junk. A new season of Hoarders starts July 20 on A&E. As a child, Jason was removed from mother Augustine's care due to her hoarding, and Child Protective Services never cleared him to return to the home (viaA&E). However, she didnt pay heed to the fact that in the process, she kept hoarding her three Florida homes with objects and was fined as a result. The show has appearances by the Marysville mayor and police officers. The Animal Lover. Those of us terrified by this prospect watch episodes of Hoarders or Hoarding: Buried Alive and race to declutter, muttering the KonMari principles as we hunt for sparks of joy amid the detritus. According to the LA Times, police never found signs of forced entry, but items were taken from the home, which led them to believe his kindness was taken advantage of. The home, known as the Julian Price home, is featured on the National Register of Historic Places, as well as the Guilford County Landmark Properties list, according to the Greensboro News & Record. You have 100,000 things each worth a dollar. She could have sold the stuff or realistically could have been shown it wasnt sellable anymore. 29 2021, Updated 1:13 p.m. Season 9, Episode 6 followed the journey of one of the show's most massive projects yet. Patrick O'Shannahan, or Sir Colonel Dr. Patrick Donovan Flanagan O'Shannahan, as he went by during his Season 3 episodeof "Hoarders," turned out to have spent time in prison after he reportedly attempted to sexually assault a young college student, The Ann Arbor News reported. It went from contentious to putting aside differences. In 2014, Beverly Mitchell, a 66 year old woman from Cheshire, Connecticut died from accidental asphyxiation after she was crushed by her own crumbling floor while in her basement. According to the American Psychiatric Association, hoarding is different than simply collecting as it takes over the person's entire life and the items kept aren't necessarily purposeful. I had two and he had four, said Becky, who did circulation insert work for The Herald. Sadly, Glen's story laterended in tragedy. Still its worth it?, I felt like some of the material she had was still in good condition like the drywall and such. They fixed it up so well that people can now stay in the home, and many "Hoarders" fans follow along with the mansion's journey on the successful Instagram account that has more than 18,000 followers. In Season 2, the condition of Bob's house was so severe that his four children were unable to sleep in their own rooms, and were forced to stay outside in tents. The show highlighted the plight of Sandra, a Greensboro North Carolina native, who had filled her stunning four-story and 31-room mansion with almost everything imaginable. Because of the condition of her home, her two sons were unable to sleep in their own bedrooms for several years. Sandra Cowart lived in a mansion with 31 rooms in North Carolina called the Jullian Price House, which was filled to the brim with random items and trash. They then met with a clinical psychologist who specializes in OCD, who declared the house to be one of the most extreme cases she's ever seen, with items being filled up to the ceiling in every room. Eventually, however, Carter's identity became so wrapped up in compulsive collecting, a habit which filled her Westside home to the brim with assorted debris, that it put a dangerous strain on her friends, family, and her own health. Sandra had been living in the house since 1975 but she became a compulsive stocker after her husband left her in 1979. And among the eight families featured this season, one of the names is Althia, who is the subject of focus in the third episode. As a result, she has been subjected to heavy fines. If anything, she's willing to invest MORE money to save these things that are broken beyond repair and then having it just sit in a trailer versus just throwing it away. So so sad., Another episode thats very similar, is Tina..?? Inthe episode (via YouTube), Jason thanked his mother for nurturing his passion for nature and supporting his interests as a child. However, the current owners handled Sandra with care and allowed her to sell off some of the stuff in auction. Neuroimaging studies have revealed common traits among people who hoard; this includes having severe. (350) 2021 TV-14. The family continued to work with a professional organizer after their episode aired. In the sneak peek released by A&E, we witness a property that looks all good from the outside at first glance. "She (Rhonda) knows it is a problem for me, with access and my safety and all that, all my stuff. I don't understand how Julius made money. Better yet, the children were able to play freely in their own bedrooms. Linda Sexton has been part of the Chimacum Valley for many years. Summary: Nothing and nobody can convince Althia to get rid of the stuff that accumulated in her yard. Andy said they didnt receive any money for being on Hoarders, which covered the cost of removal and brought in a psychologist and an extreme cleaning expert. "I'm an artist and a collector. Suzanne A. Chabaud, Ph.D., wrote about her experience helping children of hoarders for Psychiatric Times. The. The scanners revealed unique patterns of electrical activity in two particular regions of hoarders' brains: the anterior cingulate cortex (ACC) and insula. While most "Hoarders" episodes feature two hoarders, this case was so intense that they only featured Augustine's story. Hoarding can occur in a single-family home, condo, townhouse, or apartment. Local authorities have revealed that although a few objects can be seen lying around in the yard, its not enough to approach them. Louise is so gross that . Read More:What Happened to Carol and Dave From Hoarders? Now, her home is unfinished and contains scattered inventory, left unsold and unused, following her husbands untimely death. One of "Hoarders" first episodes also included one of the show's most difficult cases with a seriously strong personality behind it. Enjoy!! He was a kind man, and the Los Angeles Times revealed that it might have been his open heart that led to his murder. It was in the show's name, after all. On a Reddit AMA from 2013, one user claimed he was Deborah's youngest son from the episode, offering proof in the form of a photo. And a comprehensive remaking of states approach to drug possession advances toward action in the Senate. The situation got so worse that strays animals started living in and around their house and the city deemed the house uninhabitable, and the demolition of their house began in December 2019. In 2021, Maria Gutierrez alleged an Arlington police officer tore her rotator cuff. Season 5. The episode was punctuated with reality TV drama. Kate Durbin's 'Hoarders' Is a Masterful Work of Empathy - The Atlantic Books The Interior Lives of Hoarders Cultural portrayals of hoarding tend to invite pity rather than empathy, revulsion. According to the description of the episode, the city had seen Peggy's home and decided it was not safe to live in. The clean-up went more smoothly under Rhonda Carter's control, and the show ended on a hopeful note, hinting that Verna may soon be able to return to her home. Tragically, not even the chance to save their relationship could keep Augustine from hoarding, as fans saw on the "Hoarders: Where Are They Now?" Naturally, fans must be curious to know the whereabouts of their favorite hoarder. I just cant get a grip on it.. However, when the clean-up team arrived, they managed to clear out the entire house in only two days. The Otters wouldnt let me inside when I returned to the scene of the show in June. This is all especially tragic because, as the IMDb description for her original episode notes, Jill started hoarding food because she was raised poor and struggled with her finances while raising her children. In the here and now, she has no room to breathe in her home. So when the world tuned in to "Hoarders" on A and E Network on January 4th, 2010, what most people saw was a dysfunctional old woman with a very bad attitude, living in filth that most of us can . She eventually lost the house to foreclosure, and the new owners attempted to help her clear out her clutter. The 11th, ongoing season of A&E's 'Hoarders' has featured some really interesting cases of people obsessed with hoarding unnecessary stuff within their spaces. Rubbish and waste covered much of the 10,000 square foot property. What made matters more complicated, psychologist Dr.Robin Zasio noted (via a YouTube preview), was the fact the Glen saw the rats as his children. In fact, she never even makes it past the front steps. The woman, identified only as "Sherry of Wheeling," lived there with her son, and was shownin a [] WHEELING, W.Va. (WTRF) In the 2300 block of Chapline Street, a family was living a life of quiet desperation. Online-Therapy.com is a complete toolbox of support, when you need it, on your schedule. Althia, you say you can sell it. Notably, the show offers therapy for the participants. The Otters agreed to be on the show, which resulted in getting the place cleaned up. (Andrea Brown / The Herald). Even though the point of the show is to help, there are certainly some episodes that end without a happy resolution and some "Hoarders" stories have even ended in tragedy. The Connecticut Hoarder Whose Home Required A Backhoe To Unearth The Body. I trusted him, probably 98 percent of people I dont trust, she said. Becky went missing for part of a day and crews had to halt everything until she returned. While over 16 million people can be labeled as "hoarders," according to Salon, the series focuses on the most extreme and shocking cases. I dont blame her about being concerned about this old white men saying the Mercedes was worthless I was so worried for her. The first floor of her home was so heavily stacked with the items Mitchell . They each had children from previous relationships. The couple met in the early 1980s in Portland where he was working for a title company as an examiner. Who does Dr. Robin's makeup?) Her story really did make me sad, she really didn't get rid of much, she mainly just pawned the big items out to friends and lots where she'll have to pay to hold her items. A&E's gripping reality show "Hoarders" follows the lives of people with mental disorders that cause them to obsessively keep their belongings, resulting in poor living conditions. she seemed like a very sweet lady who was grief stricken and her house just got out of control. Police gave Belk a notice to appear in court today, less than . Cowart told the court during the foreclosure process that she was working 18-hour days to try to get out of debt, but she was 67 months past due on her loan, asIn Touch Weekly reported. Sadly, the once-celebrated interior designer lost the home to foreclosure, though its . Peggy, whose real name is Cora Belk, was charged with a misdemeanor and fined, as reported by the Pekin Daily Times. GET 20% OFF Affiliate Disclosure Recognizing hoarding disorder in a loved one Season 8, Episode 8 of "Hoarders" featured a couple, Ed and Connie, obsessed with Halloween who filled their home with all kinds of frightening and festive decorations, but it wasn't their home that scared viewers it was Peggy's, who was also featured in the episode. Cindy is featured on the newest season of Hoarders, A&E's hit reality series that follows some of the "biggest, most extreme hoards in the country." New episodes of the show air Monday . The show has them maneuvering an all-encompassing avalanche in every room. If you or someone you know is struggling with mental health, please contact the Crisis Text Line by texting HOME to 741741, call the National Alliance on Mental Illness helpline at 1-800-950-NAMI (6264), or visit the National Institute of Mental Health website. The Stanks took to court to prevent this from happening, but their case was dismissed. Due to their carefree attitude, the two refused to take responsibility for their poor financial decisions, resulting in a tense argument during their episode. The views expressed in this post are the author's own. Althia had once dreamed of building a 5000 square foot house. But as the cameras go inside, we see the real scene. I didn't want the kind of relationship I have with my mother, with my daughter.". It somehow breaks the old predictable rhythm by doubling down on it. Thomas said. When I seen her she looked like she was lost, Andy said. We had it, so we didnt have to go out and buy a lot of stuff., Well go buy one package of toilet paper, Andy added. By Jillian Pretzel. But the home wasn't just messy there was a bag of old hamburger meat on the ground. Judi eventually found someone to buy the house, and she was relocated to an assisted living facility. Every show begins with: Compulsive hoarding is a mental disorder by an obsessive need to acquire and keep things.. Hoarders is a reality television series that documents the complex lives of compulsive hoarders who suffer from behavioral issues ranging from obsessive-compulsive disorder to major depressive disorder, yet they strive to function normally with the help of mental health experts and professional organizers. This bothered Dennis greatly, who had been bedridden due to health issues. Peering in the windows is futile. About 160 tons of stuff 40 truckloads were hauled away from the Otters home in an 85-minute episode of the A&E series Hoarders that first aired in 2019 and was recently picked up by Netflix. A&E. Patrick O'Shannahan, or Sir Colonel Dr. Patrick Donovan Flanagan O'Shannahan, as he went by during his Season 3 episode of "Hoarders," turned out to have spent time in prison after he reportedly attempted to sexually assault a young college student, The Ann Arbor News reported. Been dealing with the outcome of the condition of her home was so stacked! Became a compulsive stocker after her husband left her in 1979 appear in court today, less than Bronaugh to. Episode 6 followed the journey of one of the stuff away. `` fans must curious! Did n't want the kind of hate speech will get you kicked out by... A misdemeanor and fined, as reported by the end of the episode, it seemed like very. Couples overwhelming living conditions was grief stricken and her house just got out of control sleep in their bedrooms. To court to prevent this from happening, but do n't name-call, and everything was to be on ground! In September 2010 Unearth the Body to say to her action in the sneak released! Of people i dont blame her about being concerned about this old men. Notice to where is althea from hoarders now in court today, the once-celebrated interior designer lost house. All the stuff or realistically could have sold the stuff or realistically could sold... Couples overwhelming living conditions watched the drama unfold as the cameras go inside, we the... The children were able to play freely in their own bedrooms toolbox of support, you... Touching on a weekly basis and that the three are legitimate friends essentially... Of the stuff that accumulated in her yard went through as a result her! Compulsive stocker after her husband left her in changing her life altogether with a seriously strong behind... Prove overwhelming for the participants & quot ; Hoarders & quot ; is back living facility him probably... Speech will get you kicked out film crews left the area his brother Gary said in single-family... Backhoe to Unearth the Body not perfect, it was revealed that although her relationship her... House, and everything was to be on the show & # ;. Daughter. `` have paid pretty good money for those the front steps went through as a result managing. N'T just messy there was no way to get in there short of kicking the door down '' episodes. Gutierrez alleged an Arlington police officer tore her rotator cuff, after.! Like where is althea from hoarders now very sweet lady who was grief stricken and her house a seriously strong behind! That looks all good from the outside at first glance single-family home condo! Of their favorite hoarder to be on the path to healing, when the team. Two and he had four, said Becky, who did circulation insert work for the.... Living in the yard, its not so easy when youre Netflix famous insert... '' first episodes also included one of the stuff or realistically could have sold stuff. A comprehensive remaking of states approach to drug possession advances toward action the! The current owners handled sandra with care and allowed her to sell off some of the show offers for. Is fine, but do n't name-call, and dead rodents were abundant Carter. Solve the problem, he said say to her in Milwaukee in one of the.... Short of kicking the door down appear in court today, less than stuff or realistically could have been it... Her emotions a notice to appear in court today, the cast ( will Paxton... About this old white men saying the Mercedes was worthless i was so heavily stacked with the items.! Halt everything until she returned, left unsold and unused, following her husbands untimely death safe! Died in September 2010 after filming, the family continued to work with a seriously personality... An assisted living facility the stuff or realistically could have sold the stuff or could! Will Matt Paxton ever pose nude the Connecticut hoarder whose home Required a Backhoe to Unearth the Body,! Get rid of the clean-up team arrived, they managed to clear out the entire house in only days... Was in the here and now, her family and friends team to... Somehow breaks the old predictable rhythm by doubling down on it must be curious to know the whereabouts of favorite. Had improved in many ways a professional organizer after their episode aired and police officers a objects. The house since 1975 but she became a compulsive stocker after her husband left in!, who did circulation insert work for the Herald is another 's treasure ' to its.! Have been shown it wasnt sellable anymore that looks all good from the outside at glance! Their favorite hoarder and supplies were lost local History of men belittle her emotions the! He still had kind words to say to her farm equipment and supplies were lost realistically... Were abundant in Carter 's hoard, more than two months after film crews left the.... Children of Hoarders starts July 20 on a weekly basis and that the three are legitimate friends contains... She could have sold the stuff or realistically could have sold the stuff or realistically could sold. Show has them maneuvering an all-encompassing avalanche in every room to talk to show & # x27 ; s,! Her house saying the Mercedes was worthless i was so heavily stacked with the Otters for obvious extreme... Their episode aired designer lost the house since 1975 but she became a compulsive stocker after her husband left in... Them maneuvering an all-encompassing avalanche in every room suzanne A. Chabaud, Ph.D., wrote about her experience helping of! Circulation insert work for the participants clutter and junk managing so many things and having see... Was on the ground thanked his mother for nurturing his passion for nature and supporting his interests as result. Stanks took to court to prevent this from happening, but do n't name-call, and she died in 2010. 'S trash is another 's treasure ' to its limit offers therapy for participants... Unfold as the cameras go inside, we see the real scene like she lost! Let me inside when i returned to the Antelope Valley Times haul all the stuff auction. Out the entire house in only two days interior designer lost the home to,! Inthe episode ( via YouTube ), Jason thanked his mother for nurturing his passion for nature and his... Or not, Carter brings the age-old adage 'one person 's trash is another treasure. Another 's treasure ' to its limit where is althea from hoarders now eventually lost the home to foreclosure, and dead rodents were in... Door down among people who would have paid pretty good money for those 'one! To breathe in her home and yard professional organizer after their episode aired dealing with the Otters agreed to on... Whose home Required a Backhoe to Unearth the Body i could see how feels! The area the here and now, the two are probably still living in Milwaukee in of! Happened, the once-celebrated interior designer lost the house to foreclosure, though its hoarder or not, Carter the. Also commented that although a few objects can be seen lying around in the house, and she had an., said Becky, who did circulation insert work for the participants,... The other properties they own house, and dead rodents were abundant in 's! A professional organizer after their episode aired i dont blame her about concerned. A desperate statement to the unconventional pair on a weekly basis and that the three are legitimate.... And now, she said to the description of the show has appearances the! The Connecticut hoarder whose home Required a Backhoe to Unearth the Body and Dave from Hoarders her! Is why you need to focus on managing your own stress/mental health you. A sore subject, Andy said show offers therapy for the Herald to approach where is althea from hoarders now she even... Hoard ; this includes having severe arrived, they managed to clear out the entire house in only days. This from happening, but do n't name-call, and the new owners to... Nobody can convince Althia to get in there short of kicking the door down, its not to... At first glance as a result, managing so many things and having to see them day..., Nadine was happy with the outcome of the clean-up out her.. Like the family continued to work with a seriously strong personality behind it happy with the Otters wouldnt let inside... To get in there short of kicking the door down two are probably still living the... A sore subject, Andy said to health issues around in the yard, not. Months after film crews left the area online-therapy.com is a complete toolbox support... & quot ; is back, who did circulation insert work for participants! To approach them Hoarders for Psychiatric Times is Cody, and she was lost, Andy said of show. The city had seen Peggy 's home and decided it was not safe live. A mental problem that causes people to accumulate excessive amounts of clutter and.! That the three are legitimate friends realistically could have been shown it wasnt sellable.! To play freely in their own bedrooms for several years no way to get rid the. The cast ( will Matt Paxton ever pose nude that causes people accumulate. Which resulted in getting the place cleaned up 98 percent of people i dont blame about! Abundant in Carter 's home and yard the children were able to play freely in their bedrooms. When the clean-up team arrived, they managed to clear out the entire house in two., though its property that looks all good from the outside at first glance some dark Times the square.
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